From: Chuff@prodigy.com (MR MARTIN B NOVOA)
Date: Tue,  5 Nov 1996 22:20:41, -0500
To: qsmd@visioncom.net
cc: intact-L@cirp.org
From: RSXD10A@prodigy.com
Subject: Re: "Main Preputial Artery"?

-- [ From: Martin B.L. Novoa * EMC.Ver #2.5.1 ] --



Dear John,

I have always admired your enthusiasm, but as I have been prompted to
say before, "Down, boy!"  Don't get your shorts in a knot on this issue.

We discussed this precise issue at tremendous length, ad nauseum, at the
Intactivist Strategy Conference in Evanston.  In fact, I discussed this
precise issue with you, after presenting my theories to Dr. John Taylor
and getting his input.

To review:  there are no arteries in the foreskin.  There are two
principle arteries in the penis, neither of which is superficial.  They
lie closer to the corpus cavernosa/corpus spongiosa within the penis. 
As you know, arteries carry blood FROM the heart and veins carry blood
TO the heart.

The arteries are key to supplying the blood to the corpus spongiosa (and
the glans) that is necessary for erection.  [Name deleted] spent an
entire evening about 5 months ago studying this in great detail using a
urological surgery text.  The arteries appear to end in the frenulum,
where occurs what Taylor calls "a great wash of blood, sorting itself
into the vein structure of the foreskin and penis."  There are 3 main 
(large) veins in the normal foreskin that carry blood back through the
penis.  Clearly, a whole penis with a whole foreskin is necessary for:

1)  Proper tumescence and de-tumescence of the penis.  In circumcised
men, there is an inferior, unpredictable replacement system of
capillaries, vein stubs, and intact veins (deeper) that try to carry the
blood in and out, but it is not nearly as efficient or healthy as in the
whole male.

2)  Proper overall lower body circulation.  This includes regulation of
the temperature of the glans penis, which appears to also impact the
positioning of the scrotum, which affects how close the testicles are to
the torso, how warm the testicles are, and how fertile the male is.

Rather than invent the wheel here, I will re-post my message to the List
of May 9, 1996, which discusses almost all of this:



I'll lead off with the issue of proper genital blood circulation.  I
first raised this issue earlier this year with medical professionals,
but have been thinking about it for years -- since I was a youth.  My
foreskin is full of veins!  What happens to these during circumcision! 
I believe that this could become one of the most compelling arguments
against RIC.  Please let me know what you think.



I had been thinking about the blood circulation issue for some time, and
finally had an opportunity to sit down alone with Dr. John Taylor and
ask him about it.  His answers were fascinating to me, and I have done
further research using urological surgery textbooks with [name deleted]
here in San Francisco.  I began with a theory, and have modified and
expanded upon that theory based on Taylor's and [name deleted]'s
guidance.  We still do not know the significance in day-to-day human
terms of what we're finding, but we can make some educated guesses based
on physiology and experience with similar surgical interferences. 
However, I feel this has the potential to become one of the most
significant findings to date about how circumcision interferes with
normal function of the penis.

The basic premise goes like this:  blood enters the penis via two
principal arteries -- the pudendal artery, which carries blood down from
the pelvic region; and the femoral artery, which carries also supplies
blood to the legs.  Both of these arteries are deep in the penis,
meaning they lie below the Buck's fascia (Bf).  The Bf is the movable
tissue below the skin that covers the corpus cavernosa.  It contains
veins and if you move the visible veins under the skin of your penis
back and forth and side to side, you'll see what I'm talking about.  The
Bf is like a movable layer of tissue below the skin, but above the
unmovable corpus cavernosa.  It's an arrangement unique to the penis.

Anyway, as you know, arteries carry blood INTO sites FROM the heart,
whereas veins carry blood FROM the sites back INTO the heart.  Also,
blood and lymphatic fluid cannot reverse in an artery; it's a one-way
street.

The arteries that serve the penis flow directly to and alongside the
glans, supplying its blood nourishment.  Then, they continue down to the
underside of the glans and at the site of the forwardmost point of the
frenulum (when the penis is flaccid and the foreskin is fully forward
over the glans and beyond) the arteries meet up with the vein system of
the penis.  As you can see, the foreskin and frenulum already play a key
role in the proper delivery of blood from the arteries to the veins in
the penis.  John Taylor describes this meeting up of the arteries with
the veins as a great "wash" of blood, where the raging input from the
arteries sorts itself into multiple branches of veins that then carry
the blood back out through the foreskin and penis.  This part is
important:  the primary route for the blood back out of the penis is
THROUGH THE FORESKIN.  If you look at your foreskin when it is covering
the glans, you will see that veins run up both sides of it and meet on
the topside.  From there it flows through the foreskin into the Bf and
also even into the skin system of the penis. (Note that there is no Bf
in the foreskin or glans; these veins in the foreskin must meet up with
the Bf and skin just beyond the coronal sulcus.  Watch what happens when
you retract.)  When retracted, you'll see that these veins run up
through the stretched-back frenulum and up the sides through Taylor's
"ridged bands" (frenar band).  Taylor explains that this is so that
these highly innervated bands receive the richest possible blood supply.
 The ridged bands, of which all intact men have about 10, are the
primary sexual receptors on the penis (Taylor's own words, spoken in
person to me -- not in his writings).  From the ridged bands, the veins
continue their route back through the skin and Bf of the penis.

Now, as to my theory of what circumcision does.

Some circumcisions, if not most, avoid cutting the arteries directly and
instead cut the foreskin and frenulum right about where the veins take
over.  Of course, cutting an artery runs the risk of hemorrhage.  If you
clamp the cut arteries and veins, you allow the blood to clot and might
avoid extensive bleeding.  But as you know, some infant circumcision,
like the traditional bris milah with periah, do not clamp the penis
afterward and there can be hemorrhage.  Jewish law allows a mother who
has lost two sons through hemorrhaging to death through circumcision to
avoid having to circumcise the third (this was ostensibly to address
haemophilia, but it applies to hemorrhage deaths of all type from
circumcision).

Since Jewish circumcision generally just pulls the foreskin forward and
cuts, there may be less risk of cutting into the arteries.  But the
modern hospital methods of deep cutting and clamping probably do cut
into arteries and veins alike, although there is pressure applied for
several days to allow the body to heal and adjust.  Some boys never do,
and experience severe bleeding afterward.

Once you cut off the junction of the arteries and veins, you create
three fundamental problems:

1)  The arteries become dead ends, and their endpoints can become edemas
(swollen) and deposit points for stranded lymphatic fluid, which can
harden.

2)  The complex vein system in the penis for irrigating this highly
vascular organ basically atrophies, since its source of nourishment has
been cut off from the arteries that feed it.  Instead, the body searches
for alternative routes -- capillaries, mainly -- to get blood to the
veins and back into the circulatory system to the heart.  It is
inefficient, unpredictable and completely avoidable, and the extent of
complications in individual men is unknown.  However, it does explain
problems that many men experience and couldn't understand until now --
for example, why my friend Brian has a thick, hardened half-ring under
the skin of his penis just behind the glans, under the mucosa (topside).
 This is hardened lymphatic fluid, which may not do him any direct harm,
but it bothers him.  Some people speculate that there might be a
connection between circumcision, impeded circulation, and Peyronie's
disease, which is where the penis becomes horribly contorted.

3)  The entire temperature-regulating system of the penis is affected. 
I personally believe that the foreskin serves a further function of
keeping the glans warm, at a regulated temperature, by means of the
continual blood flow through the extensive preputial vein system.  A
warm glans is a comfortable glans, more properly maintained and
regulated at a particular temperature for not only sex, but for proper
skin sloughing and "self-cleaning" and may even affect the overal
genitourinary temperature, meaning the appearance and function of the
testicles.  I have several cut friends who complain of a "chilled" glans
, particularly in cold weather or after heavy sport.  Could this be the
consequence of significantly impeded circulation to that area.  I
suspect it might.  I guess I don't need to tell most circumcised men
that a glans that is colder than (or even the same temperature as!!) the
shaft of the penis is not normal.

I believe the matter of circumcision and its effect upon an integrated,
unimpeded circulatory system needs to be studied more.  What is already
clear, however, it that circumcision absolutely interferes with the
normal, healthy blood flow through the penis and the region of the torso
around the penis.  This is not in dispute, and Dr. John Taylor and
[name deleted] completely agree on this.  The foreskin is an integral
part of the circulatory system of the lower abdomen and upper legs.


Relentlessly,

Martin